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The Tag Meme and Why It Must Stop- Here.
(AKA The Tag Game)
To all Revenews Bloggers who want to post on the latest Tag Meme- we think the meme is wonder, beneficial and useful BUT WITHOUT APPROPRIATE CONTEXT OR GOALS- it is NOT APPROPRIATE AT REVENEWS.
In the last few hours we have had several people I respect as individuals e.g.Adam Viener, David Lewis, Ben Padnos and Heather Paulson spreading the “game”.
I just got off the phone with Heather Paulson about her post since she reached out to me before I could write everyone. We discussed why it wasn’t bad by nature, but why it did not fit the venue. Plus, Heather being new, has taken a bit of a beating lately, but as I told her- that is ok- learn from it and teach others. Mistakes are learning opportunities and chances to set examples. See her response here. Bravo.
It was no different then having to call Shmuly up and explain that while he might be a Jewish guy not uncomfortable with his offbeat humor, but his picture of Hitler and Mein Kempf did not meet general business standards. (Although as I mentioned then- we say “drinking their own kool-aid” all the time- a reference to the tragic Jim Jones disaster.) I also go on to mention that despite the angry outcry from people over his posts- and little to his knowledge- he is one of the widest read bloggers at Revenews- perhaps because he has found his muse with video in a big way, and now perhaps he can combine the two…but back to the matter at hand.
Blogging, especially in a community, is tough when you start out- sometimes harder the longer you go as people expect more. After hundreds of blog posts I can still remember the first article I wrote and the first blog post- it wasn’t spectacular by any means. Everyone needs to find their footing and part of the problem at Revenews (the constant beta experiment) is perhaps guidelines have not been stringent enough. The fault could be Jim and I as I mentioned in a previous post that changes were around the corner, but they take time and careful thought. I have to take responsability and I have to act too- no excuse for my malfeasance, at the same time I must expect professionals to act as such and reciprocate.
There is nothing wrong with making mistakes, the only real mistake is not correcting it and sharing it so others do not repeat it. In a nutshell the Blog Tag Meme has swept through the blogosphere like a plague (actually Heather I think it originiate from Jeff Jarvis (or Pulver?) about a month ago- so as much as I like Wendy Shepard- it wasn’t her.)- I participated in it myself, but in my own unique twist and in the appropriate venue- my personal blog.
Two differences:
a) I set it up on my personal blog. It is ok to share personal experiences at times at Revenews, but they should be related to publishing or business or anecdotal to related industry. This is the covenant bloggers make with Revenews- when we ask what would you write about on the intake sheet ? It is always a business related answer….but we will review that process.
b) The other difference was that I selected five people at random I knew nothing them about save for one. Why? I like to twistmemes. You can find it at my personal blog, one result I received was astounding. Again- personal venue- if you want to know really personal things about me- that is where you can go…I have professional blogs, a quasi-professional blog, and a MySpace blog- which is merely an attempt to see what it was all about.
- http://www.revenews.com/wayneporter/
- http://blog.spywareguide.com
- http://www.wayneporter.com
- http://www.myspace/xcleaner
Note the differences in tone. Each has its purpose and place.
On to tagging…
Did you tag someone you know?
Did you tag someone you considered influential you wanted to know? (guess what- they are sick of it.)
Did you tag someone out of the blue?
Did you not participate at all?
Why did this meme move relatively quickly?
Good questions to ask. I think it would be a great game, even a business networking game- in the appropriate venue- and perhaps that is a venue we need here. But readers expect more. Use your sidebars, link to a personal blog if you wish or share your hobbies there. People want to know about people- they are curious- that is natural.
Clearly this type of information does not belong here- unless say- you blogged five business oriented items about me you didn’t know. I can see why bloggers might do it- as they are territorial about their space, but Revenews is like an apartment building- be mindful of your neighbors and the readership. I have already received complaints- several in fact. There are a number of influential readers and while you might think it is ok- it hurts your neighbors who have different expectations, as collaborative blogs work in synergy so that all benefit from combined exposure.
Am I being too harsh? Some will say so- grinch they will cry!
I am not imperfect, I do make mistakes, but again, not to call one out as it moves like the flu through our collective and beloved community tells me I need to step up or we need more stringent rules (without choking bloggers creativity and sharing), perhaps more room for community or perhaps something RADICALLY different. Folks- I am leaning towards radical but I want your feedback- good and bad here or in private (wporter@gmail.com)
For those who have posted the blogs- I called Heather to task because she reached out to me first- not picking on her alone, I must call you out too– ask yourself- did it fit the tenor of the site, could they have had they been written differently? I do not feel they do as they stand. Please move them or revise them to reflect business standards, but FEEL FREE to comment on why you agree or disagree and what the BUSINESS aspects of the name tagging is all about. If you do not remove them- I will exercise editorial discretion and do so.
My guess is networking and “meta data” are two keys here and “meta data” is the currency of the future….
So please don’t make me relegate a harmless personal tagging game to blog malware…keep your covenants and keep your focus otherwise find a message board that embraces such dialogue or move to a personal site where it is completely appropriate….
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I disagree - I think this game of tag was quite relevant to this forum.
It enabled me to get to know some people better whom I read on a regular basis.
On one hand, you celebrate Shmuly for posting a personality based blog with business mixed in, but you’re aghast when others dare share a little about themselves.
I don’t get it.
On another note, I’d like to call for a moratorium on the drastically overused term “meme” here.
I didn’t think it was a big deal. I think it’s nice, lets the readers know a little more about the people who blog here. That’s part of a community, getting to know your neighbors. Now something like this:
http://www.revenews.com/jimkukral/archives/002330.html
shouldn’t be here at all. Don’t think sex tapes should be a topic here especially a Screech one.
I didn’t think it was a big deal. I think it’s nice, lets the readers know a little more about the people who blog here. That’s part of a community, getting to know your neighbors. Now something like this:
http://www.revenews.com/jimkukral/archives/002330.html
shouldn’t be here at all. Don’t think sex tapes should be a topic here especially a Screech one.
Meme Screech!
I am done, good night, lol.
A little fun during the stressful holidays don’t hurt imo. I have a few unfinished posts flying around which I did not get finished and are as tired as f.. .
On top of that did my test server’s 500 GB hard disc bust on the day I got the second 500 GB as backup/mirror (raid).
Good that I had now a server to setup from scratch, in addition to the setup of a new laptop which replaced my 3 year old “work horse” (came also in just around the same time). Everything is up and ready again and I am in deep debt with my body for sleep (I borrowed quite a bit).
The tagging posts were actually nice and careful with my mushy mass called brain
What day is today? …
Carsten I am with you, I am also busy with overhauls to my driver and cleaning three computers at the moment. One of which was hit by the lovely Winfixer scum ware app!
I think it is Tuesday..
Wayne makes good points concerning content vs. context, and can you imagine every blogger on revenews posting their 5 Meme items? We would be inundated with “interesting” anecdotes concerning their personal life some of which might be too much information and it could go on for days, separating the content into generalized blogs makes sense.
I am starting a personal blog here: http://blog.paulsonmanagementgroup.com
I second the meme moratorium!
Thanks- keep comments coming here or offline. I am totally not against fun- and I am big on personal sharing and as everyone else- I participated in this- on a personal blog.
But on signing on- authors tell us what they plan to write about. Still the feedback is clear- we need some place for fun and that is NOTED, but this is not appropriate- religion, politics, etc, better left on personal areas.
Shmuley- he was a learning experiment for me and he got a phone call from me- based on complaints. No special treatment.
Thanks,
Wayne
I actually thought it was a good way for readers to get to know their bloggers. There have been many blogs here that have offended me but the tag wasn’t an issue.
Wayne, Thanks so much for stepping up to the plate. I concur. Your post is a remarkable example of leadership, transparency, candor, and concern for the RN Community.
1) This issue is quite challenging for RN. Unlike the few well managed, mature, vibrant, quality, and business centric “Forums” (think vB) who always have a seperate forum for social/personal talk to insure that the other forums remain on topic and support/validate the mission statment of the respective Community.
2) An imperfect idea: In the top left is a place for your Bio. By all means, insert the warm and fuzy stuff along with a link to your own blog. I enjoy reading this kind of stuff.
3) In my view, leadership of a Community involves anticipating negative and postitive trends/actions. While Adam was the first on this tag issue and I enjoyed it a great deal, 2 more after this in very quick succession, indicates that we have a trend which in my view is contrary to the core values/mission statement of RN so the “guidence counselors” nee Wayne and Jim step up to the plate and do something.
4) Finally, I don’t consider RN (the aggregate) a “Blog” in the conventional sence/definition. Since it contains multiple authors who are generally very smart, insightfull, and work in the industry. RN is a collection of quality thoughts which in my view are closer in structure to a high quality Business publication. This produces a number of unqiue challenges for RN and I’m confident that it will continue to flourish and refine it’s core values.
Happy Holidays to all.
Wayne, I got tagged yesterday and was just about to post on it when I read your post. You have saved me the effort of revealing five highly embarassing pieces of information about myself!
Perhaps it is time to start “funews” as a suppliment to ReveNews, then you’d have a nice double entendre as well with the “fu” part.
As a side note, I find the word “meme” tremendously useful, though the purpose of you post would have been clearer if you had called it “No More Blog Tag at ReveNews.”
I disagree with you, Wayne. The power of Revenews is that it is a group blog yet that may be the apparent weakness in this case. It may be that quantity degrades the Blog Tag event.
I saw Adam tag me on GoYaMi 2 days before I responded to his tag on Revenews. I thought about it. I generally don’t buy into these things (as I wrote in my post). I decided that this is an event on the Web (and Blogosphere). I think that Revenews would be irrelevant if we ignored this event.
If there is an important event in your community, would you give your staff the day off so you could participate? I would. I am a proud member of the blogging community and I particpated in Jeff Pulver’s (and Adam’s) invitation.
Like you, I chose to put my own spin on it. (All subtlety of my reply will now be removed.) I chose to keep my revelations mostly on business. I revealed something that Revenews readers may have wondered (see Sam’s comment). I chose to reveal 6 things and tag 6 people (see Brad’s comment and the absense of numbering). I called out bloggers who have lapsed in the last few months to invite them back (similar to how you treated tagging / see Ben’s post). And I tagged a fictitious person (homage to Mr. Clark).
I think that it’s great that you are going to improve Revenews. I’m not sure about the issue relating to the questionaire. If I had filled one out, imagine what it would have said. I’ve changed in 2 1/2 years. The Web has changed. Our industy (define as you chose) has changed. As I write I imagine more that I can write about (even if I am remiss in writing lately). I don’t want to be boxed in based on a question I answered. [Note: I know you well enough to know you don’t mean it this way but that’s how it reads.]
In journalism they say that if you don’t get complaints you’re not doing your job. I’m glad I’m doing my job at Revenews.
Respectfully yours,
-David
Wayne,
I think you are great, and I think ReveNews is great. On this issue I would ask that you step back and rethink your stand.
I first posted the message on Goyami, and then decided to post here as well since I was “tagged” by another person to my ReveNews blog. I took it as someone interested in learning more about me, and I thought that learning more about people is a good thing, especially at this time of year.
I think learning more about people gives more perspective on where their posts are coming from and can only serve to bring the community closer.
I have come to think of many of the ReveNews writers and readers as my friends, and sharing a little personal information mixed in with all the industry stuff can’t hurt in my opinion.
If I didn’t think it was appropriate for ReveNews I wouldn’t have posted it here.
I sincerely apologize if it harmed you or the community in any way.
Adam
Thanks guys, I about to respond to lauren from 1938media who has pinged me as an idiot—–response coming for him shortly.
I only ask that you move it to personal areas, but FIRE AWAY at the decision of why you think I am wrong. You are here because you are respected.
That is why this this is an ongoing conversation, I don’t want to stop the conversation, just let’s have parts of it where it is appropriate.
You are my peers, we share the community- I don’t own it, but we have basic standards. I expect you to give it to me straight, just as you should expect me to give it to you straight.
I can’t recant my decision after others have taken action. But, urge you to talk about it, LINK off to your personal sites and put it in context. Feel free to express that you dislike my decision- I know some will. It is ok to disagree in a professional fashion. That is one thing we are trying to model here.
That said, again, it only spurs me forward that we do need fun elements, and I am working on a way to do that- but it also has to be different.
respectfully,
Wayne
In my opinion, the tag thing should be one per site, like a big chain, if a bunch are posted on one site, it kinda loses something. If anything, anyone else who wanted to chime in should be posting in the original post, more like one big site discussion.
Also, as Wayne said, this site is for business and making money online and it should stay that way, lots of off topic posts dilutes the message, funews would be a great idea, somehwere to post about anything, even if its wrong.
It seems that everyone here agrees that this was an important event in blogging. The disagreement is whether Revenews should have a part in it. I still think that Revenews is irrelevant if we ignore this.
Is Revenews about business and making money? I’ve heard it described as narrowly defined as being about affiliate marketing and as broadly as about online publishing. I prefer the broad interpretation and write to that.
I don’t see why so much is being made of this. It is a one-time (or at the very least extremely rare) event. So what if there were 4 posts on the same topic. This is a blog run on a blog platform. It’s reverse chronological order. That means that today’s entries are tomorrow fish paper. If they stay on the home page longer than that, either there isn’t much going on in our world or no one is bothering to write it here.
I changed the rules in my tag entry (which I won’t rescind). Why couldn’t Revenews do the same? Wayne could have done a group tag and we all could have submitted our 5 items and 5 tags in a single post. That would have been cool and that would have been a better statement for us to make than what has been proposed in this entry.
Right david- we could have planned it perhaps, it was an interesting spontaneous event, and again from a publishing perspective important to blog on- from a memetic velocity metric important to measure, but the details themselves could stay elsewhere. Not all were inappropriate, but let’s set the standard evenly. You know I respect my peers.
Of course what *could* have happened? We don’t know- it was stopped. Not a part of our mileu.
Right about the memetic function, but (and I don’t meant to embarrass heather at all) too many personal details, no matter what one’s conviction- well it is like a MySpace page…
Business- don’t mix religion or politics. I believe in that maxum.
No, it doesn’t make Revenews irrelevant. Some detractors like to make it that way- and the quality here runs from super-high to what the heck?
That is how it is. Almost weekly SOMEONE complains about someone’s blog…we can’t please everyone, but when I get several negative pieces of feedback from people I respect I take action. If I fail too, I fail to do my job. I am unpopular because of it, then again, as one who knows me well, you know I don’t care.
Again- changes are afoot. Working on it, and again, you know me well David,you know I have a heavy schedule. We will get there….one mistake or success at a time…but yes I have something fun planned.
best,
Wayne
BRING BACK THE BLINK TAG…
Wayne, your last statement is important. If anybody complains about my blog I want to know.
Also the contact info to respond to the person directly unless the person insists that
he does not want me to know the identity, which is weak in my opinion or somebody who does not
understands the idea of blogging yet.
I know about one complaint Jim contacted me about which I will now make public (I commented on that already earlier in the post itself). Were there any more?
Okay, here it is. The post that was complained about is this one.
Jim:
Also (Carsten: there was something else he asked me too), got a few complaints about your last post. Some felt it self serving and well, not very helpful/information… calling it a blatent promotion for your other story. Yes, I know you liked to the other sources.
My Response:
Some storries are affecting the two very different worlds of search and affiliate marketing so I think it is important to reach both readerships.
The Miva example (few weeks ago) got very different types of comments on RN than on SEJ
It got Ben Edelman and Kellie to talk about AdWare at RN and SEMs at SEJ. Miva itself read the SEJ entry and contacted me because of it.
and the last post
RN http://www.revenews.com/carstencumbrowski/2006/12/google_checkout_and_issues_bey.html
SEJ http://www.searchenginejournal.com/?p=4059
will also go into different directions I believe. At RN will people talk about CJ and other Affiliate Networks and Programs while I am sure that at SEJ are people more worried about the ROI tracking of their PPC Campaigns.
And I was proven right IMO
See: http://www.mattcutts.com/blog/pixel-tracking-in-google-checkout/
and comments at http://www.searchenginejournal.com/?p=4059
There is nothing I have to hide. If somebody simply does not like what I post, I can only recommend to jut ignore posts where “Carsten Cumbrowski” is displayed as the Author. Sad to hear if that happens, but there is nothing I can do about that. I won’t blame my parents, but they are to a large degree responsible for who I am. Want their email address?
A “Readers” Perspective.
General thoughts:
The issue is all about the core values/mission statement of RN and weather each and every authors/Bloggers words that appear on the RN site (The VENUE) validate/comply with this requirement. A challenging goal which can certainly be “fuzzy” at times. A difficult task which ideally should strive to satisfy the needs of your guests/readers FIRST (thats the unspoken majority), then yourslef/the Blogger, and finally the talented “guidence counselors” nee Wayne and Jim.
Carsten, I have enjoyed reading the last few Blogs you have authored on RN. Keep up the great work. You are a brave sole
to raise the issues surrounding your old entry at:
http://www.revenews.com/carstencumbrowski/2006/12/google_checkout_and_issues_bey.html
With respect to the above entry I have some thoughts on that entry and I also think they help all of us try and grasp the various shades surrounding the tag issue:
Your original entry contained the following words:
“”I decided for that reason to post the complete story here at Search Engine
Journal and not ReveNews. You can read the full post here (LONG POST
WARNING, CLICK ON YOUR OWN RISK). ;)”
If my memory serves me correctly, your original entry did not contain any of YOUR original content in suffeciant detail on the RN site. Specifically, the link love (context) to others is fine but I want to read YOUR thoughts on the RN site. All of them please. On the topic at hand.
You said the following in this thread:
“And I was proven right IMO…”
Respectfully, your missing the point. Weather we are talking about “tags” or your SEJ copy, or any other event on the face of planet Earth or Mars, thats not the issue. I don’t care if every person on the face of the planet is “tagging” and or talking about your SEJ copy. Weather you generate “talk” in other venues is of zero concern to me. YOUR role on RN is not to stimulate “talk” in other venues. Weather I agree with your perspective/thoughts on the RN site inside your Blog is NOT the issue.
ALL the matters to this reader is weather YOUR Blog copy which appears on the RN site is: unique to RN, topical, complete, thought provoking, devoid of overt self promotion (use your side bar for that please), and last but far from least, validates the writers guidelines of RN.
Respectfully yours,
> Business- don’t mix religion or politics. I believe in that maxum.
Why not also do some intellectual cleansing of the past posts and comments on ReveNews when people tipped their hat as to their affiliations?
The only thing worse that the tag meme is that you’re berating your blogger in public on this blog, with a featured banner notation. Shame on you. How dare you shame and berate these people publicly, and during Hanukkah and Christmas season, too. Ultimately, this shows your roots. Were it not for being tagged by Adam Viener, I would have never know about Reve News. Do you know anything about new media? Good Lord.
Chris,
“The only thing worse that the tag meme is that you’re berating your blogger in public on this blog,”
Let’s clear this up- none of these bloggers are “my” bloggers. I do not “own” them. They are here on merit, because they are hands on people. This is a collective. To imply ownership of people is off-base.
In terms of “berating”- the hardest beratement falls on me don’t you think? Ultimately, as one of the stewards I didn’t make things clear enough. The game was ok, sharing of some personal details- fine, some details not so fine. Revenews is about business and
“Shame on you. How dare you shame and berate these people publicly, and during Hanukkah and Christmas season, too.”
What does the season or time have to do with open dialogue? These people know I have alot of respect for them, through dialogue here and offlist (what you don’t see). A good communications model would be the Johari Window. Thus you are moving and commenting on events via the glimpse of one event.
“Ultimately, this shows your roots.”
Feel free to elaborate…this I would like to hear more of. What are my roots? That I am intolerant? Mean spirited? What do you mean by this?
“Were it not for being tagged by Adam Viener, I would have never know about Reve News. Do you know anything about new media?”
The “New Media”? I have heard about it. What do you mean exactly because the new media, from what I hear is alot more complex than that.
“Good Lord.”
I don’t make it a policy of dragging my or anyone’s religion into commentary as a watered-down explicative, but to each his own.
However, I value your input and criticism. I have gotten some on site, quite a bit offline. From- You were too harsh too- I am glad you did that.
Without criticism we cannot move forward as a group, community, etc especially in the world of “new media”.
So what would you have done Chris- given what you know of the situation, the audience, history, reach and comments- how would you have handled it?
regards,
Wayne
Chris-
I just checked out your LinkedIn profile and saw this…
“Senior Account Supervisor
Edelman
(Privately Held; 1001-5000 employees; Public Relations and Communications industry)
(4 May 2006 - August 2006 (4 months)
Direct client contact for Wal-Mart’s innovative blog outreach campaign, including prospecting and messaging”
And YOU are asking if Wayne knows anything about “new media?”
Wow.
Anyway, I can’t say that I agree 100% with how this was or was not handled, but what everyone must realize is that ReveNews is a collaborative blog that is constantly seeking to resist definitions and limits even when the rest of us are trying to impose them. Let’s figure out what role we want this valuable community hub to play and then let’s learn from each other in this community.
Ahhhh Sharp eyed Sam…
Chris,
I would LOVE to hear more about your and or Edelman’s insights into the Wal-mart campaign, WOMMA, etc. I found the Wal-Mart blogging campaign very innovative…if innovation means aiming a shotgun at your client’s foot.
I am openly inviting you to join the conversation…and very glad to have it with you… I see you lay claim to some interesting blogs too…experiments, honeypots, or more social media optimization?
I also like some of your blogging rules of the road…you won’t mind if I take your comment and use it extended the conversation more formally? I plan too anyway.
Folks- I apologize for the comment bug. Trying to get that fixed, (Mr Kukral is attending a funeral) but rest assured I’ll pull together a more formal request for conversation. (RFC)
“ReveNews is a collaborative blog that is constantly seeking to resist definitions and limits even when the rest of us are trying to impose them”
Great… let’s expand the topic! I don’t write about affiliate marketing or performance marketing. That is far too limiting. Online publishing? The business of business online?
“hear more about your and or Edelman’s insights into the Wal-mart campaign, WOMMA, etc.”
Is that an invitation for a guest blogging spot? Chris, I would take Wayne up on that offer. Oh, wait… can’t do it as Chris crossed the Revenews No Religion policy in his comment.
“hear more about your and or Edelman’s insights into the Wal-mart campaign, WOMMA, etc.”
Is that an invitation for a guest blogging spot? Chris, I would take Wayne up on that offer. Oh, wait… can’t do it as Chris crossed the Revenews No Religion policy in his comment.”
Actually David it was no such invitation…I plan my own response to Chris and his obviously rhetorical question about my understanding of the so called “new media”. Afterall, one cannot expect to comment and not get some commentary back. This all leads back to Monkey Phone Calls, Walmart, persuasion on a micro scale, standards, etc….
I *should* enjoy my short-lived 3- day vacation but when a true blogging expert comes to educate me…well…I have to participate.
>>Great… let’s expand the topic! I don’t write about affiliate marketing or performance marketing. That is far too limiting. Online publishing? The business of business online?
Exactly!!
See my RN blog or CPN for more examples.
OK due to glitch, and it has ran its course-im locking thread- feel free to send in your suggestions, hate mail or unwanted holiday gifts.
Someone just tell me what WOMMA Means? Enlighten me..
dozens of dictionaries searched… nothing, several acronym databases searched with over 80,000 computer related abbreviations in various languages… nothing.. WOMMA typed into the browser address field with Goole’s “browse by name” enabled… WOMMA.org … Word of Mouth Marketing Association… priceless. hehe
Word of Mouth Marketing Association
WOMMA is fun to say tho
Do you know any “Yo WOMMA” jokes?
This association is new to me, I will check it out thanks Carsten and Jonathan!