Double Cowgirl: Network Employees Become Affiliates

Nov 6, 2007
by

Early last year a firestorm hit the world of affiliate marketing. It became known as the Triple Jangro. In case you missed it, CJ implemented a policy that banned its employees from being publishers. Three Publish Account Managers quit the day the policy took effect and devoted their full-time efforts to their formerly side business. Questions arose about what information they had access to and whether or not they used this information to build their business.

We have a new case that has hit our shores, the Double Cowgirl. Heather Foley and Kathryn Frankel left Performics to start Coupon Cowgirl. Well, from what I hear Heather went to Southwest Airlines where she started working as a Cowgirl and Kathryn worked at Performics when she became a Cowgirl. That means that while she was working on building a competitive site to the publishers she worked with, she was building her site. Hmmmm, something sounds like a pile of dung there, doesn’t it, cowfolks?

My IM has been ringing off the hook today. People remember that I coined the phrase Triple Jangro and wanted to know what I thought. Of course, they all told me what they thought and they were all outraged. Mind you, these are level-headed people, not the wackos out there who go off on anything. In fact, the Rumour Mill has it that a top coupon site resigned from Performics’ Pubisher Advisory Board today upon hearing the news. Whether or not the Cowgirls used confidential information, the concern needs to be addressed. I think we will hear something from Performics about this soon (public companies need time to address firestorms) and that the PAB will remain in tact.

To Performics credit, as soon as they learned about this Kathryn was given the choice to work at Performics or be a publisher. She put her cowgirl boots in the footsteps of the Jangro Triplets’ loafers.

I don’t mind having another coupon site out there. There are hundreds. There seem to be dozens more every month. The problem is when it is network employees who use confidential information to start one. Do you ever wonder why some affiliates won’t tell you what they do?

There is another problem. Kathryn made herself available for an interview with CoolBusinessIdeas.com. Her cows must have been working over time to produce enough for this one. [Note that CoolBusinessIdeas.com is listed as a partner of Cowgirl Coupons.]

You see, it turns out every last coupon site has been doing it wrong. We have no clue what we’re doing. In fact, almost all of us rely heavily on data feeds to create content for their sites and have little to no organization around their offer.

The real problem comes from the Smoking Six Shooter: Frankly, we were just plain frustrated with how many sites were doing it “wrong”. We’d always talk about how we would do things better if we had an affiliate site, and that’s how it started. Within two weeks of our first conversation we hired a designer and a programmer and we were on our way.

Of course with the great bluster that everyone else doesn’t know what they are doing (did CouponMountain’s parent just sell for $100,000,000 to $352,000,000?), I expect to see some real innovation from the Cowgirls. (Yes, I know it’s probably marketing bluster but there should be something to back it up, right?) [Note: I had a nice critique of the Cowgirls' website. Suffice it to say that there is little new on the site. We don't need to say what's wrong with it or get personal. All of our sites can be improved. Most of us just don't offer sweeping criticisms of other sites like that.]

So first is her admission of working on it while at Performics. The more important point is that they didn’t do their jobs while they were there.

People often ask me what value do the networks add. They wonder why they shouldn’t go direct with merchants once the relationship is built and sales are pumping. While I don’t necessarily want someone telling me how to run my business, if an employee of a network has been studying the space as part of her job and sees something that everyone in the industry is doing wrong, I would expect her to tell us. I think that Performics would expect as much as well as our improving our sites would lead to more sales for Performics’ merchants and more revenue.

The Real Discussion

Look, I not going to snipe at another site. However, I think that if you are going to sling insults so broadly you should have something to back it up. I ask that comments not be directed at the Cowgirls but instead address the issues for the networks. We all know that the networks make mistakes as we all do. The question is what can they do to address these issues and what should be expected of their employees.

  • Have a non-compete agreement that forbids employees becoming affiliates / publishers for a period of one year. (Yes legal needs to review this for enforceability in several states.) I don’t think that it is a problem if network employees go to work for another network or for a merchant.

  • All networks should refuse to work with employees and former employees of any affiliate network (or at least those on a list of networks they agree to). In fact, Performics has taken this to heart and has terminated Kathryn for a second time. The Rumor Mill is reporting that Performics will no longer be working with Coupon Cowgirl.
  • Please add your suggestions in comments below.

About David Lewis

David Lewis is the CEO and founder of 77Blue which operates online shopping websites. Prior to that, he worked in business development at GoTo / Overture. David was a product manager and accountant in past lives. In 2006, David won Commission Junction’s Horizon Award for Innovation and was a finalist for Linkshare’s Golden Link Award. You can find David on Twitter @thedavidlewis.

Twitter: thedavidlewis
Filed under: Online Marketing
  • http://www.couponcowgirl.com Kathryn Frankel

    Hi David,

    It's Kathryn from CouponCowgirl.com. I can definitely appreciate your opinion on this matter and you have some valid concerns. However, I feel you've embellished a bit here and I want to take this opportunity to reply to your post.

    "You see, it turns out every last coupon site has been doing it wrong. We have no clue what we're doing. In fact, almost all of us rely heavily on data feeds to create content for their sites and have little to no organization around their offer. "

    David, this is an exaggeration and misquote of what I said. I certainly didn't say that EVERY coupon site is doing it wrong. Nor did I say that MOST sites rely on data feeds for content. Further, I stand by my comments that things can be and should be improved. For example, I think stealing coupon codes from other affiliate sites is wrong. I think leaving outdated coupons on sites is wrong. I think bidding on keywords that are obviously prohibited is wrong. I think PERSONALLY bashing other sites is wrong, and that's exactly what you've done here.

    Further, Heather left the company before CouponCowgirl.com launched. Please note that the date on the coolbusinessideas article is October 3rd – at which time my notice to Performics had already been submitted. Finally, CouponCowgirl.com was not working with Performics as a publisher while we were employed with the company, nor was any confidential information used in the creation of this site.

    Thanks again for your feedback. If you have any further questions or concerns, I would be happy to discuss with you.

    Kathryn

  • http://www.revenews.com/davidlewis/ David Lewis

    Kathryn-

    Thanks for your comment. I agree with you about problems with some coupon sites. (Yes, I took the con in a debate on coupon sites at Affiliate Summit West last year.) For example, I don't understand how merchants allow sites to post expired coupons that are listed as such. I'm sure that over time you will find that Coupon Cowgirl has expired coupons due to the lack of posted expiration dates (or the infamous default 2012). Ah, if only all of the other information were clearly stated. If you check the archives of Revenews, I have been calling for that for years and have given suggestions to execs at every network.

    So how is it that I can be critical of some coupon sites and take you to task for it? You gave issues in your comments similar to issues I have raised (Mike Allen has done so on Revenews as well). You didn't do that at CoolBusinessIdeas. There you made what I saw as broad claims that you were innovating, which I along with others who called me about this viewed the same way.

    That takes us to PERSONALLY bashing other sites. You should have read the first draft. It critiqued your site heavily. It reviewed the parts of your site that you claimed were innovative. I thought that it would be wrong to do so and would only detract from the issue at hand. Thus, I deleted that.

    If you reread what I wrote, you will see that there are no personal attacks of your site. I stand by my statement that there is little innovation on Coupon Cowgirls. We can look at a lot of sites that have innovated over the years.

    The only reason that there is any comment on Coupon Cowgirls is because you made claims on a thinly-read blog. In fact, you seem to have brought this issue to people's attention. It was the article that spread the news like wildfire yesterday (apparently a month after publication) leading to a Performics Publisher Advisory Board member resigning and Coupon Cowgirl being terminated by Performics.

    It doesn't matter when you launched. You haven't rebutted that you guys started the business while at Performics. You had access to confidential information while starting the business. You didn't tell your publisher partners or your employer that you thought each could improve their businesses. Instead, it appears to many people that you used that for your personal gain.

    I thought it was an important issue to write about. I took neither of those actions so if you think that you and Heather did nothing wrong and that there is no impropriety, I suggest you take it up with the board member and Performics. I'm just Western Union. Please don't shoot my horse.

  • http://youtube.com/watch?v=537kCuNjf10 Clint

    I think this whole discussion can be best summed up through a little interpretive dance.
    Yee-Haw!

  • http://www.revenews.com/davidlewis/ David Lewis

    Update: It looks like all Performics links at Coupon Cowgirls are dead. Kudos to Performics for doing the right thing and sending a message to any employees who think of following in the Cowgirls bootsteps.

    Note to the Cowgirls: You might want to remove those stores from your site. I don’t think dead links are one of the new features you are trying to promote.

  • http://alohaweightloss.com chris

    This is much adoodoo about nothing! These girls face the same challenges as everyone else. Can they get enough traffic etc. Anyone who thinks there is "secret" information that can make a site successful or not has not had much success in this business! Sure working at a network might give them some info but not much. You crybitches are mad about some thing you don't even know exists! Stop worrying about others and do more work on yours and you will be fine@=!

  • http://www.revenews.com/davidlewis/ David Lewis

    Chris-

    Thanks for commenting. While I don't find "crybitches" to be the most professional term, let's run with it.

    I have only heard about two companies being "crybitches", as you call them. I reported the facts above and raised objections to Kathryn's hubris on Cool Business Ideas. I tried to give the Cowgirls a place to defend themselves against what people were saying. Kathryn did not and has not answered the questions I posed above. On an affiliate marketing forum, Heather showed up twice but didn't seem to want to address the points that people made there. (It seems that the Cowgirls have ridden off into the sunset. That probably is the best strategy in a situation like this. Go to a safe house until the dust settles.) So it looks like all we have to go on are the actions of the two "crybitches", as you call them.

    First up is one of the largest coupon sites. I'd say the site is extremely successful. The founder (note that I won't out this person as I did not out the Jangro Triplets and only gave Kathryn's and Heather's names as they were in Kathryn's interview) is the one who brought the issue to public view. S/he also worked closely with the Cowgirls and obviously thinks that there was confidential information that s/he shared with them.

    Next there is Performics. Nah, Performics must not be that successful. Personally, I think that Performics is a pretty good judge of whether or not the Cowgirls had access to confidential information. Performics' reaction (first giving one of the Cowgirls the choice of her job or her business and then to terminate the Cowgirls from the Performics network) speaks volumes.

    But, of course, when compared to alohaweightloss.com, I guess these "crybitches" have "not had much success in this business".

  • http://none mark

    I appreciate the input from the site's creator, she seemed to have a reasoned, ethical and well stated response. I am surprised at her restraint considering the personal manner you attacked not only the site but the actual people involved. I don't get why you wrote this blog, considering the fine work you've done in the past. Seems personal. You libeled them and your response to the owner shows me your absolute bias, but whatever, it's your internet blog, we all have one.

    As for content, I'm having problems relating your summary of "the real discussion" to their website and the personal bashing you put on them in the text of your article. It appears there is much more bashing than content and that you're a very angry person. Say it ain't so! I would suggest going on a walk and taking a break from the keyboard. Overuse of the internet makes everyone mad. I know it first hand.

    Just reading comments here…You say in your 3rd (or was it 4th?) comment that you deleted some of the more personal stuff from your original post?! I can't imagaine how much more personal you got? Scary :) LOL

    Thanks for the info though, I checked out their site and I like it. I'll be using it as a replacement over the more established dinosaur/Apple IIGS style competitor sites I've been with the last several years. I like the look of their site and their personal and communicative style. I'm giving them a thumbs up on the design and content.

    Yes I'm at work and I'm bored and I have another hour to kill.

    ———————————-
    …upon further review. chris called YOU a cry bitch. not them.

    " tried to give the Cowgirls a place to defend themselves against what people were saying. Kathryn did not and has not answered the questions I posed above. On an affiliate marketing forum, Heather showed up twice but didn't seem to want to address the points that people made there. (It seems that the Cowgirls have ridden off into the sunset. That probably is the best strategy in a situation like this. Go to a safe house until the dust settles.) "

    You are giving them a place to defend themselves? Seems like you are giving yourself a place to try and ruin their website and ruin their reputation. Nice. (PS your whit and sarcasm comes off as crass and unprofessional, if your goal (as implied) is to take down their site or ruin their personal lives I'd assume a different approach.) Also, I think you might have a crush on them.

    The founder of another site that knew them brought up the problem? S/he shared information with them? Is that illegal for them to start a business because they talked to someone else who has a business? Someone tells me how to brew coffee can I not open a smaller brewed coffee store across town from their national chain? The rebuttles to your comments are truly endless, much like my post. I don't get your line of argument here Dave. Sounds like s/he is just upset, like s/he is your friend, and you and/or s/he are vindictive. What really happened? When and where did s/he bring this to public view? This is the only place I find it on google.

    So many questions. So little interest in your impending response.

    Mark – Curious outta Kansas

  • http://www.revenews.com/davidlewis David Lewis

    Mark-

    Hmmm, if you want to see anger, look in the mirror. If you want to see personal attacks, read what you wrote to me. I just reread my original post. There are no personal attacks. The Cowgirls did start the site while at Performics (well, one was still there). One of them was forced to resign her position at Performics. The Cowgirls did have access to information that many people (including Performics) consider to be confidential trade secrets. A Performics Publisher Advisory Board did resign (and Mark, no this person isn't a friend of mine… I'm not sure if we've even met). Performics did terminate Coupon Cowgirls from its network. Those are just facts. Nothing to do with me so you need to chill, dude.

    I stated clearly what the ethical issues are. I haven't talked to anyone who has a substantial amount of sales running through an affiliate network who didn't think there was a problem (yes, this was unprompted by me). How did Kathryn explain how they weren't ethical breeches?

    I'll stick with the reaction from people who don't post anonymously on blogs who make clear, logical arguments. I think Performics has a better idea about this than you.

    So now, Mark, it is time for you to go back to work and waste either your own time or that of your employer.

  • http://www.revenews.com/davidlewis/ David Lewis

    WOW… I am in shock at the directions comments have gone. I delete some that were sooooooo far off-topic and are just degrading into attacks. That seems to be the trend on this one so I am closing comments.

    I am sure that I'll hear about this from some of these folks later. For the record, I am happy to have comments from people who disagree with me. I would love for their to be a good debate on the issues. The deleted comments were not on the issues. It's really a shame.