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Web 2.0 and Affiliate Marketing
I had the honor of filling in at the last minute for Shawn Collins on an Ad Tech panel about affiliate marketing. Once again, the idea of blogs as affiliates emerged.
There has been a lot of fuss on this topic and a strong case for blogs as affiliates made by people in the affiliate space. I finally got a chance to say what I think on this topic: yes, the Web 2.0 — blogs, podcasting, RSS — is fun and sexy, but honestly there is just no volume there compared to the other affiliate verticals . If any company could have leveraged the web 2.0 in affiliates it was Audible with its unique user proposition and when I was there we ran tons of blog, podcast and some RSS campaigns in the paid media channel, but blogs just did not work as affiliates. Yes, there were a few here and there, but the volume still came from the traditional affiliate verticals. The blogs with volume are all part of the blog networks - BlogAds.com, Gawker, and WeblogsInc - and are making more on a CPM then they would on a CPA.
People on the panel argued that would change, but honestly, blogs are written by thought shapers and they can demand CPM dollars because they can leverage the idea of Cost Per Influence payment structure. I think in Web 1.0 we called that the ability to leverage brand dollars.
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thanks for joining us on the panel Beth, the audience was indeed lucky to have such a qualified stand in ready.
I hope Shawn is feeling better and able to enjoy his birthday.
The problem is that nobody has been able to figure out, yet, that bloggers can’t survive on boring affiliate offers.
I’ve tested and tried this model, and I know what does and doesn’t work. Now it’s time to implement.
The volume may not be there, sure, but with the right creativity, we’re going to prove that blogs can out perfom and out convert across the board, and in the end, isn’t that was it’s all about?
It’s very difficult to monetize a blog using affiliate programs. The best way to make money in affiliate marketing is to build a niche site around a merchants products and services.
If you’re a blogger AdSense makes the most sense… and that’s my 2 cents.
>there is just no volume there compared to the other affiliate verticals
All verticals are different in volume, but I think blogs can certainly be strong for the right program.
It may well be that audio books aren’t the right program.
According to the 2006 BlogAds Reader Survey - http://www.blogads.com/survey/blog_reader_surveys_overview.html - there are four predominant blogospheres: political, gossip, mom and music
So products that sell well to these groups are bound to be most successful.
I’ve seen plenty of blogs running ads that seemed a bit random for their audience, and that approach won’t work in any vertical.
Jim,
“The volume may not be there, sure, but with the right creativity, we’re going to prove that blogs can out perfom and out convert across the board, and in the end, isn’t that was it’s all about?”
Jim, I love blog advertising as much as anyone and I’ve written about it on RN a number of times, but at the end of the day, it can’t produce the volume (even if it converts well) that two or three super affilites can produce with a lot less work for the manager.
Shawn,
“>there is just no volume there compared to the other affiliate verticals
All verticals are different in volume, but I think blogs can certainly be strong for the right program.
It may well be that audio books aren’t the right program.”
Shawn, I rarely disagree with you, but I do in this case. Blogs were one of our strongest paid media channels at Audible, but we needed special creative targeted to match the content of the sites and that method is not scaleable in the affiliate channel. Moreover, all of our testing proved that ads needed to be retired more often on blogs than other properities and it’s hard to support that in the affiliate channel.
I just have a hard time buying blogs as volume affiliates. We did have blogs in the affiliate channel at Audible but the PPC guys blew them away in terms of volume, but i have to say, I have rarely seen affiliate links on blogs anywhere else.
But to each his own on this.
Beth
> all of our testing proved…
Yes, but that is assuming that Audible is atypical of other affiliate programs.
In the ones I run and have run in the past, ppc isn’t really a factor.
So I think one big thing your testing would prove out for me is that it wouldn’t necessarily relate to my program, because we’re working with different affiliate verticals.
Two things here:
One I just recently started a blog off of my main site that just promotes the offers the merchants provide. That’s it. No original articles. The whole thing is affiliate links only except for maybe a short blurb about the merchant itself.
Secondly why are you bringing PPC into this discussion. PPC is a whole separate topic and you can’t compare it to blogging volume. This is akin to comparing volume between PPC and natural search.
We chatted about this at AdTech, but I think as affiliate marketers we need to keep in mind that “Web 2.0″ encompases far more than simply Blogs, Podcasting and RSS. There is volume out there and I suggested that the Lampreys like PhotoBucket and Slide, which feed off of social networking and other new model sites, might be leveraged to provide volume for the savvy Business Development people in the crowd. If 3rd party services like those can manage to grow their member base to millions in the course of a few months, then we should not be too quick to shut the door on the Web 2.0 space…personally I’m a big fan of the syndicated distribution (Revver/YouTube) and social ecommerce models… (Squidoo/Yub)
Beth,
I think the problem is perhaps a narrow concept of what a Blog is.
To be honest, a blog is just a web publishing tool, with some minor differences, it’s not that much more than asking if affiliates can make money with a website or not.
The best looking blog (substitute website if you want) in the world isn’t going to make sales for a merchant unless it get’s traffic.
So the question is, can smart affiliates use blogs to attract traffic and sales for a merchant.
I believe the answer is yes!
If we can move away from the narrow definition of a blog being a “web log” and conversation only, and can expand the definition to any site using blog software to distribute content, then you can quickly see the value of blogs.
Here are some examples of different uses of Blogs:
http://www.10bestselling.net
http://www.buy-engagement-rings.com
http://www.costumes-for-kids.com
They are all blogs, but are being used to market products. When you get a blog that converts well enough, than you can drive PPC traffic as well as go after organic search.
For content affiliates, blogs are a dream come true, you can easily publish articles, schedule articles to be published at future dates, and insure that articles have the right linking and syndication structures.
Blogs are the new affiliate websites of the future. Perhaps wiki’s next…
Shawn,
I think that Audible was the perfect product for blogs. Blogs are about content and if you can match the content to the conversation then you will have high conversion. We did a blog campaign at Audible on a CPM and paid 6 cents a click. Remember this entry of mine? http://www.revenews.com/bethkirsch/archives/000259.html
Jack,
This has everything to do with PPC and SEO affiliates. There is volume in those affiliate verticals. In blogs, there is just not the volume. Affiliate programs need the ability to scale in order to drive volume. Blogs need too much work and individual campaigns to make it worth a manager’s time.
Brian,
As I said to you on Thursday at Ad Tech also (good to see you btw
), I wrote this blog early one morning after a late night of drinking. I really meant blogs, podcasts, and RSS in this case and not social networking. I think the social networking and affiliate marketing is worth it’s own entry. I might write it up tonight.
Adam,
I agree with Jim to be honest. What you are doing is using blog software to build affiliate sites. But hey, whatever makes you money. :o)
Cheers,
Beth
> I think that Audible was the perfect product for blogs.
I know that’s what you think, but that doesn’t make it reality.
Personally, I don’t think there’s enough general interest in audio books to establish them as a mainstream case study.
Now if Gawker were to work in some contextual links for publications, CDs, DVDs, etc, I think that would be more illustrative.
Shawn,
We can disagree about Audible and blogs. I ran a lot of volume through Audible’s paid media campaigns on blogs, but I ran more with the PPC affiliates in CJ.
“Now if Gawker were to work in some contextual links for publications, CDs, DVDs, etc, I think that would be more illustrative.”
I’ll go back to my orginal point. Gawker would never ever be part of an affiliate program. Gawker can command CPM money, so why would they take a risk on a pay for performance model? They would not. Neither would any other blog network. I’ve bought those networks, they wont touch CPA money let alone CPS money. Bloggers like CPM money and who can blame them.
Lets look at the advertising on Gawker and Engadget right now
– The promise (movie)
– Take 5 candy Bar
– Speedo
– Samsang video
– Palm
– and a tribal fusion ad which was for Quicken Loans.
Gawker and Engadget can make more money on a CPM than they can on a CPA. Blogads.com has locked up a lot of the smaller blogs with CPM money. Blog networks have also hurt the ability of affiliate marketers to leverage blogs.
Affiliate programs work when the publisher has no choice but to run a CPA or can make more money on a CPA.
The one excption is AdSense — I’d call that an affiliates program while others would not. Jeremy was right when he said ad sense is the best way to monitize blogs.
My personal take is that blogs target thought leaders and they can leverage brand dollars for the most part. Affiliate Marketing is not a brand play but the DR play in an online marketer’s arsenal. Plus, then there is the volume question.
We rarely disagree on affiliate programs, this is an interesting discussion.
Hope all is well.
Cheers,
Beth
> Gawker would never ever be part of an affiliate program.
Just an example of a popular, mainstream blog off the top of my head.
> My personal take is that blogs target thought leaders and they can leverage brand dollars for the most part.
I think that’s a bit of a generalization. Back to Gawker - thoughtleaders reading it?!
> Affiliate programs work when the publisher has no choice but to run a CPA or can make more money on a CPA.
There are tons of fools who run bargain basement CPMs because of this mentality.
In reality, they could back into a much better CPM with a CPA.
“I think that’s a bit of a generalization. Back to Gawker - thoughtleaders reading it?!”
lol! fair enough! Well, I actually don’t consider Gawker a blog (shocking I know) I just used it because you mentioned it. I was thinking more in terms Dailykos or Powerlines.
“There are tons of fools who run bargain basement CPMs because of this mentality.
In reality, they could back into a much better CPM with a CPA.”
Well, I think most of those people would do better with AdSense on a content site.
Also, I think those people are looking for an automated solution, so they don’t have to search out great offers. It’s a lot of work to run affiliate programs for a publisher.
Here is a quote from Chris Pirillo on this topic: “Before AdSense, which began in March 2003, bloggers and other small Web publishers had fewer options to make money. They could put banner ads on their sites for a host of non-related products, or commission programs from Amazon and eBay. It was a lot more work, and you didn’t get much of a return.”
I tend to think Chris is right.
And then there is the PPC volume question
Cheers,
Beth
> I was thinking more in terms Dailykos or Powerlines.
Depends on how you define it - many folks call Drudge Report a blog. But it’s not all about politics.
> Here is a quote from Chris Pirillo on this topic: “Before AdSense, which began in March 2003, bloggers and other small Web publishers had fewer options to make money.
Before 2003 blogging wasn’t mainstream either.
Gawker ain’t no blog! Neither are the rest of those big websites with comments.
One thing that I am curious to know is what people consider a blog. Is it just for content sites? What’s the advantages IYO of an affiliate blog versus a regular website.
Maybe if we exclude anything that uses blog backend technology and is profitable from the defination of a blog, we can quickly determine that blogs don’t make money!?!?!?!?
I think Adam is on the right track here. It amazes me how narrowly blogs are perceived.
One way blogs can sell with affiliate programs is just like email marketers do it. You know, actually selling, instead of slapping up banner ads and hoping for a sale.
Or, how about catablogging? Seems a viable ecommerce alternative.
Both require copywriting, instead of pontificating, and I think that’s where people get lost on blogs. Just because they started as journals and political soapboxes does not mean that’s where they are going.
Things are just now getting interesting in the blog world, but only if you look at the cool things you can do with what is essentially content management and publishing software.
Really great sales people prefer to be paid on commission. Lower tier producers prefer hourly rates.
This is an especially interesting conversation for me because I’ve spent the last few months trying to create exactly what you are debating - an affiliate site which leverages Web 2.0.
“instead of slapping up banner ads and hoping for a sale.” we are trying to create a community that will discuss specific goods and then provide a link directly to merchants who offer the item being discussed.
I think there are a lof of opportunities for Web 2.0 to drive traffic because it provides consumers with objective “word of mouth” information. Armed with this information, consumers can then make informed decisions.
I am interested to hear others thoughts.
Thanks.
Kevin
kevin.finn@boutiquewinecellar.com