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	<title>Comments on: About CJ vs PJ and the Rules of the Community We Work In</title>
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	<link>http://www.revenews.com/affiliate-marketing/about-cj-vs-pj-and-the-rules-of-the-community-we-work-in/</link>
	<description>Discussion of Online Marketing, SEM, Social Media, Mobile and Video, Micro-Content, and Affiliate Marketing</description>
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		<title>By: Marc Porcelli</title>
		<link>http://www.revenews.com/affiliate-marketing/about-cj-vs-pj-and-the-rules-of-the-community-we-work-in/#comment-11835</link>
		<dc:creator>Marc Porcelli</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Mar 2008 15:00:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.revenews.com/carstencumbrowski/about-cj-vs-pj-and-the-rules-of-the-community-we-work-in/#comment-11835</guid>
		<description>The whole PepperJam CJ issue sounded very familiar to what happened with Azoogle a few years ago. I blogged about it here, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.marcporcelli.com/2008/03/07/pepperjam-and-commission-junction-feud-rings-a-bell/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.marcporcelli.com/2008/03/07/pepperjam-...&lt;/a&gt;  
  &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.marcporcelli.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.marcporcelli.com&lt;/a&gt; </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The whole PepperJam CJ issue sounded very familiar to what happened with Azoogle a few years ago. I blogged about it here, <a href="http://www.marcporcelli.com/2008/03/07/pepperjam-and-commission-junction-feud-rings-a-bell/" rel="nofollow">http://www.marcporcelli.com/2008/03/07/pepperjam-&#8230;</a>  </p>
<p>  <a href="http://www.marcporcelli.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.marcporcelli.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan (Trust)</title>
		<link>http://www.revenews.com/affiliate-marketing/about-cj-vs-pj-and-the-rules-of-the-community-we-work-in/#comment-11787</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan (Trust)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Mar 2008 12:17:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.revenews.com/carstencumbrowski/about-cj-vs-pj-and-the-rules-of-the-community-we-work-in/#comment-11787</guid>
		<description>&quot;Is that the way you do your business as well? Do you like it? I hope that this is not the case, because I would be a bit disappointed in you.&quot;

I&#039;m disappointed in you because it seems like you didn&#039;t even listen to the podcast.  I would be disappointed in CJ if they actually fell for your continuous baiting.  I was disappointed that on your first blog on this, 3 weeks ago (old story)that you had to be contacted to correct some of your statements to &quot;accurately reflect the known facts.&quot; and the other edits you had to make. That was sloppy.

http://www.revenews.com/carstencumbrowski/questionable-business-practices-in-affiliate-marketing-part-278/

And again, you don&#039;t have all the facts but you continue to make judgements and blog away.  This is between them and their legal departments.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Is that the way you do your business as well? Do you like it? I hope that this is not the case, because I would be a bit disappointed in you.&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;m disappointed in you because it seems like you didn&#8217;t even listen to the podcast.  I would be disappointed in CJ if they actually fell for your continuous baiting.  I was disappointed that on your first blog on this, 3 weeks ago (old story)that you had to be contacted to correct some of your statements to &#8220;accurately reflect the known facts.&#8221; and the other edits you had to make. That was sloppy.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.revenews.com/carstencumbrowski/questionable-business-practices-in-affiliate-marketing-part-278/" rel="nofollow">http://www.revenews.com/carstencumbrowski/questionable-business-practices-in-affiliate-marketing-part-278/</a></p>
<p>And again, you don&#8217;t have all the facts but you continue to make judgements and blog away.  This is between them and their legal departments.</p>
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		<title>By: Carsten Cumbrowski</title>
		<link>http://www.revenews.com/affiliate-marketing/about-cj-vs-pj-and-the-rules-of-the-community-we-work-in/#comment-11789</link>
		<dc:creator>Carsten Cumbrowski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Mar 2008 11:48:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.revenews.com/carstencumbrowski/about-cj-vs-pj-and-the-rules-of-the-community-we-work-in/#comment-11789</guid>
		<description>Evan, if somebody would have a problem with you or what you did and would go around behind your back to get your friends away from you without you having a clue what is going on. Would you consider this to be okay or do you think that the person should have contacted you first and try to sort things out before they become unnecessary messy. 
 
Jonathan, I&#039;m expressing my personal opinion. Regarding the facts that I had to correct I have to say that it didn&#039;t change anything about the core of the message at all. It was a mere technicality. I am not legally involved with this incident and play cat and mouse games. What CJ actually did had the same goal as what I was stating. The only difference was that they did it in a more sneaky way with a few hoops in between to distort the situation from a legal point of view. My personal guess is that this was done based on recommendations made by CJ&#039;s legal council.  
 
I think it was mentioned somewhere, but I won&#039;t spend the time and try to dig it up, because I also do not need to, because I said that I &quot;believe&quot; and not that I &quot;know&quot; if it is the case or not. And it also does not matter if I am right or not about it, because it does not change anything and it is also not defaming and thus questionable from a legal point of view.  
 
If it would be a legal hearing and statement, things would of course be different. There you have to play the game differently. Opinion would not matter anymore.  
 
I don&#039;t like paying time wasting games and tend to cut right to the chase whenever possible. That is how I am, if you like it or not. You either cope with it or ignore it, its your choice. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Evan, if somebody would have a problem with you or what you did and would go around behind your back to get your friends away from you without you having a clue what is going on. Would you consider this to be okay or do you think that the person should have contacted you first and try to sort things out before they become unnecessary messy.</p>
<p>Jonathan, I&#039;m expressing my personal opinion. Regarding the facts that I had to correct I have to say that it didn&#039;t change anything about the core of the message at all. It was a mere technicality. I am not legally involved with this incident and play cat and mouse games. What CJ actually did had the same goal as what I was stating. The only difference was that they did it in a more sneaky way with a few hoops in between to distort the situation from a legal point of view. My personal guess is that this was done based on recommendations made by CJ&#039;s legal council. </p>
<p>I think it was mentioned somewhere, but I won&#039;t spend the time and try to dig it up, because I also do not need to, because I said that I &quot;believe&quot; and not that I &quot;know&quot; if it is the case or not. And it also does not matter if I am right or not about it, because it does not change anything and it is also not defaming and thus questionable from a legal point of view. </p>
<p>If it would be a legal hearing and statement, things would of course be different. There you have to play the game differently. Opinion would not matter anymore. </p>
<p>I don&#039;t like paying time wasting games and tend to cut right to the chase whenever possible. That is how I am, if you like it or not. You either cope with it or ignore it, its your choice.</p>
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		<title>By: Carsten Cumbrowski</title>
		<link>http://www.revenews.com/affiliate-marketing/about-cj-vs-pj-and-the-rules-of-the-community-we-work-in/#comment-11783</link>
		<dc:creator>Carsten Cumbrowski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Mar 2008 11:20:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.revenews.com/carstencumbrowski/about-cj-vs-pj-and-the-rules-of-the-community-we-work-in/#comment-11783</guid>
		<description>Hi Jonathan,

&quot;That’s nonsense but what Ryan said, Kelli did address it some in the podcast.&quot; 

I must have missed the part where she explained why they sent CJ Access advertisers who use PJ for their OPM services unreasonable (time window) ultimatums behind the back of PJ and without explaining the advertisers the reasons for sending out such an ultimatum in the first place.  

&quot;more that this is being handled where it always should have been handled&quot;

Silently without anybody knowing about it.. but you are right, dirty business is done that way. Leaving no trace of what happened behind and shred the little bit of documents that was done on paper for whatever unfortunate reason. Is that the way you do your business as well? Do you like it? I hope that this is not the case, because I would be a bit disappointed in you.

&quot;if you’re got another Jason Calacanis blog post ready to go, trash it.&quot;

Not really, but I am thinking about one that was triggered by some of the discussions that happened. It&#039;s interesting to hear a complete outsider, but Internet business veteran, talk about what he perceives of the affiliate marketing industry and what his understanding is of how it works.
Some other stuff kept me more busy than I intended so I didn&#039;t find the time to write about a bunch of thing that I wanted to write about. Well, eventually and you will may be liking some of the stuff as well. We will see.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Jonathan,</p>
<p>&#8220;That’s nonsense but what Ryan said, Kelli did address it some in the podcast.&#8221; </p>
<p>I must have missed the part where she explained why they sent CJ Access advertisers who use PJ for their OPM services unreasonable (time window) ultimatums behind the back of PJ and without explaining the advertisers the reasons for sending out such an ultimatum in the first place.  </p>
<p>&#8220;more that this is being handled where it always should have been handled&#8221;</p>
<p>Silently without anybody knowing about it.. but you are right, dirty business is done that way. Leaving no trace of what happened behind and shred the little bit of documents that was done on paper for whatever unfortunate reason. Is that the way you do your business as well? Do you like it? I hope that this is not the case, because I would be a bit disappointed in you.</p>
<p>&#8220;if you’re got another Jason Calacanis blog post ready to go, trash it.&#8221;</p>
<p>Not really, but I am thinking about one that was triggered by some of the discussions that happened. It&#8217;s interesting to hear a complete outsider, but Internet business veteran, talk about what he perceives of the affiliate marketing industry and what his understanding is of how it works.<br />
Some other stuff kept me more busy than I intended so I didn&#8217;t find the time to write about a bunch of thing that I wanted to write about. Well, eventually and you will may be liking some of the stuff as well. We will see.</p>
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		<title>By: Evan</title>
		<link>http://www.revenews.com/affiliate-marketing/about-cj-vs-pj-and-the-rules-of-the-community-we-work-in/#comment-11785</link>
		<dc:creator>Evan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Mar 2008 06:58:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.revenews.com/carstencumbrowski/about-cj-vs-pj-and-the-rules-of-the-community-we-work-in/#comment-11785</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s not that I would prefer a street fight to one with rules but I&#039;d don&#039;t really think that analogy works in this situation. Why should CJ have given any warning to Pepperjam before notifying their clients and giving an ultimatum or gone about it differently when Pepperjam went around proclaiming their network as the &quot;answer&quot;. They certainly have convinced several merchants to join their network in the last couple of months (check their blog and digitalpoint postings), I haven&#039;t compared if those merchants were in CJ previously but I would think a lot were. I guess they really are going to have to deliver for their merchants now instead of relying on CJ to produce for their merchants. We shall see... </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#039;s not that I would prefer a street fight to one with rules but I&#039;d don&#039;t really think that analogy works in this situation. Why should CJ have given any warning to Pepperjam before notifying their clients and giving an ultimatum or gone about it differently when Pepperjam went around proclaiming their network as the &quot;answer&quot;. They certainly have convinced several merchants to join their network in the last couple of months (check their blog and digitalpoint postings), I haven&#039;t compared if those merchants were in CJ previously but I would think a lot were. I guess they really are going to have to deliver for their merchants now instead of relying on CJ to produce for their merchants. We shall see&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan (Trust)</title>
		<link>http://www.revenews.com/affiliate-marketing/about-cj-vs-pj-and-the-rules-of-the-community-we-work-in/#comment-11781</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan (Trust)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Mar 2008 06:30:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.revenews.com/carstencumbrowski/about-cj-vs-pj-and-the-rules-of-the-community-we-work-in/#comment-11781</guid>
		<description>&quot;The lack of engagement and response by CJ is also a signal by CJ for what they think of the community, including me.&quot;

That&#039;s nonsense but what Ryan said, Kelli did address it some in the podcast.  And the &quot;lack of response&quot; has nothing to do with the community, more that this is being handled where it always should have been handled and it&#039;s not in one way blog posts.  This has been milked to death already.  And if you&#039;re got another Jason Calacanis blog post ready to go, trash it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The lack of engagement and response by CJ is also a signal by CJ for what they think of the community, including me.&#8221;</p>
<p>That&#8217;s nonsense but what Ryan said, Kelli did address it some in the podcast.  And the &#8220;lack of response&#8221; has nothing to do with the community, more that this is being handled where it always should have been handled and it&#8217;s not in one way blog posts.  This has been milked to death already.  And if you&#8217;re got another Jason Calacanis blog post ready to go, trash it.</p>
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		<title>By: Carsten Cumbrowski</title>
		<link>http://www.revenews.com/affiliate-marketing/about-cj-vs-pj-and-the-rules-of-the-community-we-work-in/#comment-11784</link>
		<dc:creator>Carsten Cumbrowski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Mar 2008 06:25:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.revenews.com/carstencumbrowski/about-cj-vs-pj-and-the-rules-of-the-community-we-work-in/#comment-11784</guid>
		<description>Hi Evan, 
 
thanks for your comments. 
 
Again, I am not complaining about what CJ did or does, but how they did it.  
 
If you got to fight, you got to fight, but if you do, would you prefer doing it in a ring with rules and a neutral who makes sure that the rules will not be broken or do you prefer a street fight without any rules where any nastiness goes unpunished and is accepted as legitimate and okay? </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Evan,</p>
<p>thanks for your comments.</p>
<p>Again, I am not complaining about what CJ did or does, but how they did it. </p>
<p>If you got to fight, you got to fight, but if you do, would you prefer doing it in a ring with rules and a neutral who makes sure that the rules will not be broken or do you prefer a street fight without any rules where any nastiness goes unpunished and is accepted as legitimate and okay?</p>
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		<title>By: Evan Weber</title>
		<link>http://www.revenews.com/affiliate-marketing/about-cj-vs-pj-and-the-rules-of-the-community-we-work-in/#comment-11779</link>
		<dc:creator>Evan Weber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Mar 2008 03:19:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.revenews.com/carstencumbrowski/about-cj-vs-pj-and-the-rules-of-the-community-we-work-in/#comment-11779</guid>
		<description>The affiliate world is a very competitive place and there are only a finite number of good affiliates and then lots of affiliates that can become super-affiliates one day if worked with and educated. CJ has an incredible universe of affiliates and publishers and great brand-name merchants and I think deserves to protect what they have built up from other companies that would seek to &quot;recruit&quot; advertisers and affiliates from CJ to somewhere else. I know everyone wants peace and love in the affiliate world but we all know that there are plenty of &quot;entities&quot; (like big forum people) that have had falling outs with each other over the years in the affiliate community. Affiliate marketing is big business and getting bigger, so like anything in business everyone is trying to get a piece of the pie. What Pepperjam did just simply crossed the line from working with CJ to working to be a CJ. Fundamental difference in my opinion. At the end of the day its about building relationships with affiliates and working with affiliates to create productive affiliates regardless of their experience or knowledge level. You know what I&#039;m about!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The affiliate world is a very competitive place and there are only a finite number of good affiliates and then lots of affiliates that can become super-affiliates one day if worked with and educated. CJ has an incredible universe of affiliates and publishers and great brand-name merchants and I think deserves to protect what they have built up from other companies that would seek to &#8220;recruit&#8221; advertisers and affiliates from CJ to somewhere else. I know everyone wants peace and love in the affiliate world but we all know that there are plenty of &#8220;entities&#8221; (like big forum people) that have had falling outs with each other over the years in the affiliate community. Affiliate marketing is big business and getting bigger, so like anything in business everyone is trying to get a piece of the pie. What Pepperjam did just simply crossed the line from working with CJ to working to be a CJ. Fundamental difference in my opinion. At the end of the day its about building relationships with affiliates and working with affiliates to create productive affiliates regardless of their experience or knowledge level. You know what I&#8217;m about!</p>
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		<title>By: Carsten Cumbrowski</title>
		<link>http://www.revenews.com/affiliate-marketing/about-cj-vs-pj-and-the-rules-of-the-community-we-work-in/#comment-11778</link>
		<dc:creator>Carsten Cumbrowski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Mar 2008 01:35:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.revenews.com/carstencumbrowski/about-cj-vs-pj-and-the-rules-of-the-community-we-work-in/#comment-11778</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the info Ryan. I listened to the podcast and don&#039;t see the need to re-write my post at all. However, I felt that I had to extend it, what I did.

I am not ranting btw. It might looks like it on the surface. I am shouting and try to wake some people up and spell some stuff out that people tend not to talk about very much, because it makes them feel uncomfortable.

I hope that my additions to the post make my intention with it much more clear now.

Cheers!
Carsten</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the info Ryan. I listened to the podcast and don&#8217;t see the need to re-write my post at all. However, I felt that I had to extend it, what I did.</p>
<p>I am not ranting btw. It might looks like it on the surface. I am shouting and try to wake some people up and spell some stuff out that people tend not to talk about very much, because it makes them feel uncomfortable.</p>
<p>I hope that my additions to the post make my intention with it much more clear now.</p>
<p>Cheers!<br />
Carsten</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan Leonard</title>
		<link>http://www.revenews.com/affiliate-marketing/about-cj-vs-pj-and-the-rules-of-the-community-we-work-in/#comment-11761</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan Leonard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Mar 2008 07:40:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.revenews.com/carstencumbrowski/about-cj-vs-pj-and-the-rules-of-the-community-we-work-in/#comment-11761</guid>
		<description>Kerri Pollard did a podcast on CostPerNews last week to address this issue.   
 
You might want to listen to that, then re-write your entire rant. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kerri Pollard did a podcast on CostPerNews last week to address this issue.  </p>
<p>You might want to listen to that, then re-write your entire rant.</p>
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