“Smartest Guys on the Web Don’t Know What Affiliate Marketing Is”

Houston, we have a problem here. How can this be?

This is hysterical. Thanks for sharing this, Sam.

Perhaps the oddest moment comes at the end of the show when someone asks "Why hasn't Google jumped on this affiliate thing? Does Amazon have a patent on it or something?"

(Sam slaps head… hard).

Yikes. I don't know how anyone can hear that description and think, "So, multi level marketing comes to the web." Scary!

I'm not sure what's funny about it Linda? It certainly proves what I've been saying/thinking for years and years… that affiliate marketing exists in a bubble.

Many do an awesome job of trying to break out of it, but it's obvious we're still not there yet. I find the lack of information about the industry from people like that to be disheartening.

Although, some would argue that it's ok to be in a bubble, and in a way, it is.

I wouldn't be surprised if 98% of people have no idea what affiliate marketing is. And often times, when I've heard it explained or start to explain, the first knee jerk reaction is, "Sounds like MLM?"

Of course, that being said, I'm sure there are many people in the affiliate industry who don't really have an idea on what Facebook, or Digg or certainly the Gillmor Gang is?

Seriously? Oh no, that's so sad!

When I saw the title, Sam, I thought you were talking about that situation I blogged about on Friday. I called out a Sr Analyst at Forrester who published the COMPLETE List of the Many Forms of Web Marketing and largely omitted affiliate marketing as a form of web marketing.

So anyway, we sure have a lot of work ahead of us!

The question now is, what happens when the bubble bursts and the world actually figures out what affiliate marketing is and how they can profit from it?

In order to head off the "I don't know who the hell these people are so I don't care if they know about affiliate marketing" type arguments, let's remember that the personalities on the Gillmor Gang (and the circles of the web industry that they represent) help to set the general perception of things like web-user experience and have incredibly important voices when investors/press/media/Madison Ave marketing agencies want to know about the web, marketing or emerging markets.

So, instead of focusing on their apparent lack of curiosity or snobbery, etc let's instead put our energies towards figuring out a way to promoting affiliate marketing as the incredible democratic and progressive platform that it is. If you listen towards the end of the podcast, Marc Canter starts brainstorming on ways to use affiliate marketing in his PeopleConnector platform. That is powerful.

Remember, it only takes one snowflake to start an avalanche.

"In order to head off the "I don't know who the hell these people are so I don't care if they know about affiliate marketing" type arguments,"

Aw, why? Why this need or why care that a few web personalities don't know what it is? It just comes off as a little too needy to me that we need to be recognized by this person or that person or we aren't legit. Even the title gives that feeling away, the "Smartest Guys on the Web" Says who?

Jonathan-

The title comes from the podcast and was tongue-in-cheek. Read the transcript.

"Why this need or why care that a few web personalities don't know what it is? It just comes off as a little too needy to me that we need to be recognized by this person or that person or we aren't legit."

There are some of us who want to see the affiliate industry thrive and grow beyond the ABestWeb bubble. Having some of the leading personalities at least understand what affiliate marketing means is a step in that direction.

Stay in your well defined and comfortable ecosystem at ABW, but don't call those of us who want to help evolve the industry in other directions needy (and we'll do the same).

Sam

ABW bubble? I don't even know what that means. We've had this discussion before about 9 of the top 10 merchants having affiliate programs. I would say the "Smartest Guys on the Web Do Know What Affiliate Marketing Is" Top merchants do, the search engines do.

As far as evolving the industry, I have to go back to what Pat was getting at with your choice of advertisers. I just don't see the concern that some "blogging personalities" don't get it.

Your non-concern is duly noted. Thanks for stopping by, Jonathan.

For those of us who are concerned, what do you all think about Jim Kukral's "renaming" idea from last year? I'm still not a fan of that approach, but it raised interesting question about affiliate marketing's past, present and future course.

Sam

Your non-action is duly noted.

In case you forgot, there was also a poll on the front page of Revenews about that question. The answers leaned heavily to no. It's just a name.

Just to take a bit of a contrarian view here, I don't see it as extra important that Steve Gilmor, Marc Canter and Hugh M. understand the ins and outs of affiliate marketing. To say they shape the web experience is a bit far reaching as well. Amazon, Google, and Yahoo, Microsoft shape the web experience, and these companies are of course well aware of affiliate marketing.

Those Gilmor dudes are just pundits. I kind of relate to having the idea that it's important for the Mclaughlin group to be aware of affiliate marketing. I don't think that because those Gilmor guys are in the "Silicon Valley Bubble" are any more important that the McLaughlin Group for the political/DC bubble, or for that matter the Fashion Group/Bubble (Anna Wintour, etc.)to be aware of affiliate marketing.

But that's the thing, Dave… these guys aren't just pundits or similar to the McLaughlin group. Winer basically created RSS/XML, SOAP, syndication and helped to create podcasting. Gillmor has been there from the beginning with practical application of blogging to businesses like PodShow. McLeod is a well respected consultant and thinker who is currently doing a gig with Microsoft. We all know Calacanis' business.

The point is that affiliate marketing has an image (or lack thereof) and the people in the ear of major retailers, corporations and ad agencies are these guys. We need to make sure there's at least a baseline understanding of what affiliate marketing is in order to continue to be relevant to the people who decide the marketing budgets at the top.

If I walk into any ad agency in Chicago or New York, and ask 100 people if they know who Dave Winer or Steve Gilmor is….what do you think the answer will be? If there are two phone calls to a major ad agency president, one from Steve Gillmor and the other from Anna Wintour….who's he/she going to take the call from? Who has more influence?

Let's take the top 50 consumer facing corporations in the US. If I asked the Sr. VP of Marketing who Dave Winer is, and who McLaughlin is….who do you think will have the better recognition?

Winer is an engineer, and he has the ears of engineers. Mcleod also…has the ears of TECH focused people. Gilmor…he has the ears of some Silicon Valley people. I highly doubt you can find more than a small handful of senior advertising, retail, consumer oriented people outside of IT who know who any of these guys are.

Outside of some very technology focused organizations centered mostly around Silicon Valley, I don't think these guys really have that many ears. Yeah…Hugh's in the UK…but still.

It's great to get more recognition of the industry, but I actually think these guys are considerably less important to win over than major advertising/marketing focused people….and these guys I would say have no influence in that sphere.

Sam,

Great post – VERY funny! I love the (Sam slaps head) HA! "Affiliate stuff"? I'll be staying at the Rio and looking forward to meeting you all on the roof top!

I think affiliate marketing is very much an inside baseball kind of thing.

People outside of the industry know about it, but I think there are a great many that don't understand it.

Part of the issue is that it's not easy to put in a little box. Well, not as easy as search, since affiliates are using search, email, comparison shopping, video, mobile, blogs, social media, etc.

Anyhow, I was glad to hear the Gillmor Gang talking about it.

I'm not going to sit here and argue about who they influence – they have a very significant cumulative influence in my opinion among those listening to their show, as well as the people they know.

So it's a good thing for them to be edified on the industry.

Enough of the "my dad can beat up your dad" nonsense. There is no argument over here – it's always a good thing for influencers to be illuminated about affiliate marketing.

Haha, you're right Shawn, I was getting a little bit too much into a my dad can beat up your dad thing. Nice way to put it into perspective.

It's human nature to kind of stick within knowledge/experience silos. People in politics, feel politics are the most important thing in the world. People in energy feel energy is the most important.

Let me put my point in different terms as well. I kinda thing having these guys talk 1 minute about affiliate marketing is kinda like putting a banner ad for ToolKing or John Deere tractors up on Perez Hilton's gossip site or on Cosmopolitan.

Ok for branding, but still not really hitting the target audience that will impact the industry. Of course, there are always exceptions….

Although, now that I think about it…maybe…perhaps….some web start-up looking for some way at monetization, and who's never heard of affiliate marketing will give it a look now.

Of course there's a risk/downside too…when you get a bunch of guys who don't know anything about the industry talking about it, quick conclusions are drawn. Ala, "oh MLM comes to the web" comment.

The Affiliate Marketing Reputation Thing

Thanks for visiting the Affiliate Tip blog. Subscribe to my RSS feed or enter your e-mail on the top right to get updates by e-mail.Sam Harrelson posted to ReveNews how “Smartest Guys on the Web Don’t Know What Affiliate Marketing Is.&#8221…

This comment thread is as interesting as the transcript. Any way to get a feed of the comments so I can pump it into NewsGang, Sam.

Replace (Sam slaps head) with (Wayne drinks a shot)…it makes me wonder if blogging about obfuscated JavaScript being injected into the banners with GEO-IP IF statements to blow in malware has really been worth the time?

I can understand the value of having the smartest guys out there truly understanding what "affiliate marketing" means. I tend to think of affiliate marketing as a form of "deal structure" where as i think most outsiders see it as a place for small companies…even though huge companies do it all the time! if they called it "affiliate marketing" I believe they think, and in the past it has, it will erode the CPM or CPC they can solicit.

"what do you all think about Jim Kukral's "renaming" idea from last year? I'm still not a fan of that approach, but it raised interesting question about affiliate marketing's past, present and future course."

Revenue sharing everyone seems to get, but it isn't always revenue sharing.. e.g. Flat CPA…or a hybrid, or a sliding scale hybrid……..I think we need some clear voices from a macro level to do some education- we need to really back up. These voices should not be "networks" because of how each network is loaded defines their sales pitch and their educational attempts. Networks have done a poor job at sustaining their industry. I believe Lisa Picaralle and Shawn Collins touched upon this in their recent podcast.

I was ready to get behind renaming AM at one point, at least from the point of a long time revenews.com contributor. Revenews has tried to advance beyond the simplistic definitions and into larger scale things, but the core readership and fanbase want the deeper technical items because they are not going to get it at too many other places.

At the end of the day of it is all about revenue (and how it is measured) and partnerships (where a label does impact understanding- sokal back at you? ).

Affiliate marketing is terribly congested with misconceptions, old sales pitches, and myths from the past. It is, perhaps, further fogged by the effect of successful "affiliates" wanting to stay off the radar (for various reasons good and bad) and an overall image problem. It is always easy for people to find the negative or to try to reduce things to something quite simple.

Affiliate marketing, i feel, is very complex- it just looks so simple on the surface. The longer you work in it, the more you realize all the nuances. But to get those who are tone deaf they do not appreciate all the skills involved…probably because everyone wants to sit in their silos?

Lastly "performance marketing", a school of thought i championed for awhile and was wrong- i think veterans should avoid that "brand". It not only sets up a vicious cycle that rewards only "results at any rate" it quietly retards the growth of an industry that was built on the backs of amateurs and experimenters.

You get a bonus if you can make more sales…and that is perhaps a problem too. How do you measure some of the intangibles?

Ironically how do you that from an "industry" whose mantra was pay only for what you get…

I blogged yesterday about immersion in education and how ironic it all is now…I do believe our best marketing blue prints are science fiction novels and gaming is suddenly an important discipline, yet i feel the casual Revenews' reader will feel that posts like that are again a waste of time.

Back to step one maybe- rethinking how we think?

regards,
Wayne