ReveNews
Hydra Responds
Since this type of discussion is important and it is rare for an ad network to come forth while under fire, below is the response from Mason Wiley, the SVP of Marketing for Hydra, as originally posted in the comments section Brad Waller’s article Reason #4837 Why This Industry Needs an Association and in response ultimately to Ben Edelman’s research here:
Hello, SVP of Marketing for Hydra here to throw in my 2 cents… or fuel for the fire. First off, we aren’t going to pull our ad just because the discussion puts us under a harsh spotlight. We really truly have nothing to hide. The fact that people use adware is not news. It is not illegal. Some advertisers even request it. And for the record it represents just a small fraction of our overall business.
Does allowing adware by some affiliates hurt all others? In theory, It could. Is it truly a widespread problem in reality? Frankly, we hadn’t thought of it before - as I said, it’s not a big part of our business. But now that our attention has been called to it, we’re looking into it.
If you recall, Hydra was the first to eliminate cash incentivizers due to shadiness. We have made heavy investments to provide rigorous compliance - in fact we are widely regarded as exceptionally aggressive in that area. We also spend legal and research dollars to vet claims by advertisers. And more.
I don’t bring these points up thinking they can counteract the this whole adware brouhaha. The point is this: Hydra does not wish to engage in shady black or grey hat practices - NOR do we feel it is in our economic interest to do so. Do you think we want to jeopardize the inroads we have made with major brand name advertisers in order to score a quick buck? (the answer is no) We have had great success playing by the rules… and we want to be even more successful.
So we welcome any efforts to set professional standards, monitor and police, and generally clean up the affiliate marketing space. The better advertisers understand how reputable affiliates and networks work, the safer they will feel, and the more ad dollars they’ll pump in. That would be good for affiliates. That would also be good for us. Our interests are totally aligned on that one!
Anyway it’s end of day Friday so I will stop for now. But i do look forward to continuing the discussion.
If you have your two cents about Hydra specifically, CPA networks in general, or the proliferation of adware, the comment section below is a good place to express those opinions.
Now that Hydra has had a chance to respond I think it is worthwhile to point to testing where showing Hydra in action and cautionary notes on working with CPA networks:
From Ben Edelman (aside from one mentioned in article):
Claiming Commissions on Blockbuster’s Organic Traffic (http://www.benedelman.org/spyware/images/selftargeting-may07/2.html)
Post on ABW about working with CPA Networks:
(http://forum.abestweb.com/showthread.php?p=700247#post700247)
Mason:
You mention not having much considered the effect of adware on other affiliates. Fair enough. That’s not quite what my article was about — though, to be sure, it’s a crucial question and one I and others have previously considered at length.
But what about the effect on VistaPrint? Are you concerned about the fact — shown in (in my view) exemplary clarity and detail in my article — that a Hydra affiliate is claiming commission for a sale that would have happened anyway? For traffic VistaPrint was about to get for free? How is this not a scam against VistaPrint? What exactly does VistaPrint get for its payment to Hydra? Isn’t this a serious worry? Surely Hydra doesn’t want to receive commission without providing a genuine business benefit.
I credit Hydra’s prior efforts to eliminate certain unsavory affiliate practices. Great. But as to your suggestion that adware is “not a big part of [Hydra’s] business”: How would you know? Suppose a Hydra affiliate 1) buys adware traffic, and 2) doesn’t tell Hydra what it’s doing. (We know that’s common through plenty of affiliates at plenty of other CPA networks.) Then it strikes me as remarkably unlikely that Hydra would count this affiliate’s traffic as adware traffic. Put another way: Hydra might not know how much adware traffic it is actually sending to advertisers. You certainly can’t assume that all Hydra affiliates are telling you the truth about where their traffic comes from.
In my initial article, I mentioned that my AutoTester has observed 1,287 instsances of spyware/adware sending traffic to/through Hydra Network. (That’s correct — more than twelve hundred — not a typo.) To me, that’s significant. Hydra is certainly among the most prevalent CPA networks my AutoTester detects. What evidence can you offer to support your claim that Hydra’s use of adware is “not [] big”? What methodology would you propose that the interested public use to assess that claim?
Ben Edelman
Does adware hurt other affiliates? Yes. Affiliates who drive traffic to a merchant only to have an adware popup overtop of that conversion does hurt the original affiliate.
If you truly wish not to engage in the practice with adware popovers, please feel free to forward me your contact information and I’d be more than happy to send you my report every month of Hydra affiliates who are popping up using adware on top of our affiliate traffic. My email is Brian at ShareASale.
I definitely agree with you that it is in all of our best interest to protect against so called “black hat” techniques both in Adware, search, incentivization, etc…
I would argue that we need to go further than just eliminating what is “illegal”, and greatly consider the problems that this industry could face down the road if we don’t provide a clean and safe environment for advertisers. Advertiser distrust, industry regulation, etc…
Just to follow up on Hydra’s response, I posted ten further examples of ten different Hydra affiliates using spyware/adware to claim commissions on traffic merchants would otherwise have received for free.
Details: Hydra Media’s Pop-Up Problem — Ten Examples
I continue to think this is an indefensible practice — overcharging merchants, funding spyware/adware, and reducing commissions paid to rule-following affiliates.
Truly outstanding follow-up article Ben! Thank you for your work.
Hey Ben,
Excellent job and very timely article. Thank you for taking time to do the follow up and post it.
For anyone following along, I never did hear anything from Mason, or Hydra …
Hi Brian,
I have not heard anything either although I did inform them of the multiple requests and responses to their statement.
Angel